UNCLE SAM WANTS YOUR OLD CAR

[65cuda]

Federal government would love to pass a law, to offer an incentive to have your old car (15 years and older) crushed,

SEC. 803. ASSISTANCE FOR STATE PROGRAMS TO RETIRE FUEL-INEFFICIENT MOTOR VEHICLES.

(a) ESTABLISHMENT- The Secretary shall establish a program, to be known as the `National Motor Vehicle Efficiency Improvement Program,' under which the Secretary shall provide grants to States to operate programs to offer owners of passenger automobiles and light-duty trucks manufactured in model years more than 15 years prior to the fiscal year in which appropriations are made under subsection (d) to provide financial incentives to scrap such automobiles and to replace them with automobiles with higher fuel efficiency.

(b) STATE PLAN- Not later than 180 days after the date of enactment of an appropriations act containing funds authorized under subsection (d), to be eligible to receive funds under the program, the Governor of a State shall submit to the Secretary a plan to carry out a program under this subtitle in that State.

www.geocities.com/motorcity/downs/4170/scrap.pdf

[benny]

part a rot box out and sell it to Sammy

[swi66]

Just another scam by the government.
This pleases the environmentalists, and places the blame on us the people with the old cars.
Also, the Auto industry is in a death spiral. This is due to reasons of their own making. To make money they have cut back, the more they cut back and the more jobs they ship overseas the less people working and able to afford a new car.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,They blame everyone else while the executives wallets get fatter.
This will not suprise me enough.
I'm sure the UAW will come out in full support for this.

[65cuda]

some pencil pushing geek, must of dreamed this up

[benny]

it is too much of an industry AT THIS TIME for any of that crap to fly

[65cuda]

hope your right, but nothing surprises me anymore

[65cuda]

swi66 said:

Just another scam by the government.
This pleases the environmentalists, and places the blame on us the people with the old cars.
Also, the Auto industry is in a death spiral. This is due to reasons of their own making. To make money they have cut back, the more they cut back and the more jobs they ship overseas the less people working and able to afford a new car.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,They blame everyone else while the executives wallets get fatter.
This will not suprise me enough.
I'm sure the UAW will come out in full support for this.

True someone has to take the blame, they tried knocking out the older cars with the current inspection mandates.

[oldschoolcruiser]

Before my dad died, about 20 years ago, he told me it's just a matter of time before the federal government will find a way to force all the older cars off the road and cause people to have to buy new cars. Ever notice how car dealers begin making the parts obsolete for their products in as soon as 6 years from the year of production?

I think he was right, but the only way to make that really happen is through legislation, and the excuse will be 2 words......"fossil fuels". Gasoline powered cars could someday be illegal to run on the highways! It could happen sooner than we think. We need to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. Imagine the daytona 500 being run with with hydrogen or electric powered cars!

Perhaps if we live long enough to witness this happening, the only way to get our old cars to the local cruise night may be to have them towed there (or pushed).

[benny]

I forecasted before that soon all cars will be bought and sold through the big dealers...no more small time guys and all cars will have to be maintained at a dealership....it's getting closer to communism..big guy and gov't takeovers...You need Gov't cooperation ($$$$$$$$ Bribe) to get this done. Also...the middle class is shrinking and soon it will be knights and surfs all over gain...

[oldschoolcruiser]

But.......I don't wanna be a surf!

[65cuda]

Obviously no one is going to crush this car for a $2,500 voucher; but many of the restoration parts on a 1969 Dodge Charger Daytona are shared by Belvederes, Coronets and other old Chrysler products that might not escape the scrap man's jaws of death

[oldschoolcruiser]

benny said:

I forecasted before that soon all cars will be bought and sold through the big dealers...no more small time guys and all cars will have to be maintained at a dealership..

If that really happens, just wait and see how many "out of production" parts suddenly become available again through the dealer.......I can see it now, $1,000 directional switches.

[65cuda]

I pasted and coped this from the NEW YORK TIMES-read it if you have time,

So-called "clunker" laws are a case in point. They have been sprouting up like fungi after a rain. They use tax dollars to finance the removal of cars built before the advent of modern computerized emissions controls. The theory is that these "clunkers" are the largest contributors to our smog problem.

In truth, clunker laws are not about improving the quality of the air. They are about giving huge government subsidies to big industrial polluters--coal-burning utility companies mostly--in the guise of a "free-market" solution to air pollution.

As usual, the problem originates in Washington. Federal mandates stemming from the ill-conceived 1990 amendments to the Clean Air Act require states to meet an arbitrarily set air quality standard. Otherwise, they face losing funding for highway construction and maintenance.

The portion of the Act that specifically threatens old automobiles is the provision mandating reductions in mobile sources. That's bureaucratic cant for car and truck emissions at levels to be set by the Environmental Protection Agency in "non-attainment areas." Non-attainment areas are parts of the country--cities mostly--which do not meet the standards set forth in the act.

Since old cars, derisively referred to as clunkers, are highly visible and easily portrayed as mobile bilge barges, they are an attractive target for state governments seeking to find ways to meet the federal government's requirements.

The schemes run the gamut, from programs that provide incentives for people to trade in their older cars to elaborate, transferable emissions credits. Under these, large industries avoid compliance with emissions requirements if they help get old cars off the road.

Granting emissions credits to smokestack industries as a market-oriented way to get clunkers off the road. But granting what amounts to a pollution subsidy to heavy industry is more akin to central planning a la Soviet Russia than anything Murray Rothbard might have come up with.

In actuality, these schemes merely shift the source of pollution around like some elaborate shell game, and thus do nothing to improve overall air quality. After all, does it matter if the source of smog is your neighbor's 1956 Plymouth--or the incinerator five miles down the road?

A bill recently introduced by GOP luminary Sen. Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania would have encouraged new car dealers to destroy pre-1980 model cars received as trade-ins. In return, the manufacturer would receive a credit towards its corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) requirements.

Other bills under consideration have pushed for the removal of pre-1980 model cars through similar "incentive" programs. None of these laws have yet been passed, but the worry is that it's only a matter of time.

It's funny to reflect that government types actually believe that substituting one bureaucratic boondoggle for another (say, CAFE credits for emissions credits) constitutes the unfettered marketplace doing its thing. These are the same people who have gotten into the habit of referring to captive citizens as "customers" on income-tax forms.

Present efforts to get old cars off the road are mostly voluntary, and only involve the usual waste of tax dollars. The fear among car collectors is they may soon become mandatory as states are faced with the loss of federal revenue and other strongarm tactics from the EPA.

Clunker programs in California, Virginia, and other states have met with vociferous opposition from older car owners. They rightly believe that politically powerful industries are avoiding having to comply with environmental and emissions standards themselves. In return, they sock it to the collector, the young person who cannot afford a newer car, and the family of modest means.

The emissions credit plan is especially galling. Say a large textile company buys up 100 pre-emissions controlled cars (1968 model year and earlier) and has them crushed. That company is then given an exemption or credit which permits it to spew its own pollution in an amount equal to the reduction achieved by the elimination of the 100 old cars.

Crushing older cars might be justifiable if, indeed, they were indeed poisoning the population with fumes. But they are not. A handful of older cars may emit higher levels of carbon dioxide, volatile organic compounds, and oxides of nitrogen, the principle components of smog. But when tuned properly, most have levels of exhaust emissions comparable to or exceeding that of post-1981, computer controlled, and fuel injected cars.

Further, the number of classic, antique, and other special interest pre-emissions cars in circulation is quite small. How many 1963 Cadillacs do you see? By their very nature, old cars don't rack up a lot of miles. It's unfair to single them out as significant contributors to the pollution problem.

Moreover, it's not true that a computer controlled car will always pollute less than a pre-emissions car. Modern cars rely on a vast array of extremely complex and interrelated systems, all governed by a computer. There are dozens of sensors and relays which must work perfectly for the car to be clean running.

Should a critical part fail--the oxygen sensor, for example--the resultant emissions could be significantly higher than a pre-emissions vehicle. Any mechanic worth his socket set knows this is true. But of course the people writing regulations never consult anyone who knows anything about the issue.

Another problem is the high maintenance cost of late model cars and trucks. In the real world, poor people coerced into trading in their old cars in favor of new ones would probably not be able to afford to keep them up properly. The end result is no net reduction in emissions.

The bottom line in this debate is not over clean air. It's another case of arrogant federal and state regulators with the wrong motive and incentive, spewing out misguided, expensive, and ultimately futile laws. We expect this from our government. But why do they insult our intelligence by claiming they're following the principles of the free market?

[oldschoolcruiser]

1 million car cruise to washington.............


Meanwhile, I'm hanging on to the Tempo.......heck, if it's worth 2 and a half grand in another couple years as scrap? Maybe now's a great time to buy a load of $50 parts car specials and store them behind the house.......with the profit I could buy another classic! ;D

[65cuda]

hey why not? buy them junkers up now, I was reading somewhere if the law passes its a $2,500 voucher for your old car.

[65cuda]

but watch how the junker priced may climb now

[oldschoolcruiser]

You'd have to buy now before the law passes........but I'll bet there will be a limit one per household.

[65cuda]

it will be hard to get parts to restore store some cars, example my 65 Barracuda has many Donner parts from other 65 Valiants, & Barracudas. They make vary little to none repro parts for early A-bodys

[oldschoolcruiser]

I wish I had the dough.........and about 10 or 20 acres......now is a prime time to buy old parts cars and not sell them for scrap. I think in the near future even small parts are going to be in high demand. Even rusty but straight sheet metal.

Lack of parts may be a factor in what could kill this hobby.......they only make parts for the popular high demand cars, leaving the really cool but rare ones out in the cold. Try finding amc Pacer parts........

[oldschoolcruiser]

You'll see a lot of pacers and oddball cars showing up in the future after the supply of chevelles, corvettes, 'cudas and mustangs dries up. Their won't be much left even the cheap affordable cars of the present may become expensive if the classic car craze doesn't crash soon.