I Was Banned!

[65cuda]

I see what you are saying, like the guy with the red Malibu who was giving his choice to enter the modified class or to bully the stock class.

Was glad to see the Olds Club made him go in the modified class. at the Fantasy Island show

[benny]

yes...that's an example

[65cuda]

If I put my Pinto on the road this year, or if I don`t sell it, I may enter it in stock class at a certain show.

;D ;D

[benny]

you'll just be a target if it'e the show I'm thinking of...and I'm sure; welcomed warmly

[swi66]

Classification is rough................
I've had the issue with a guy with an SS.
Insists he wants to go to the "stock" class because his car is stock.
I tell him the rules say "Muscle" cars go into Muscle class.
written right in the flyer...................guy still is not happy.
He then goes and actually complains to other members, who come to me to see what I can do to make the guy happy.........................To make the guy happy, I would have to put him in the production class. I tell the other members to go talk to the owners of the stock non musclecars in that class and see what they think. Make one guy happy, PO 15 more.

Everyone wants to interpret the rules differently....................one reason I was not the one classifying last year, among other reasons. Hey, I made mistakes and one or two got by me. Tough to get anyone to do that job, and if they do, they will make mistakes too..stuff happens.
The limits of modifications are open to interpretation too, most shows allow "minor" or 3 modifications................I do know this, when I do judging, if im judging stock, I'll walk right by the modified cars every time and vote for the cars that in my opinion are as stock as they can be. I'm no expert, but correct batteries, hose clamps, etc I notice.
Awhile back though someone asked me about a car in a stock class at a show..............looked stock to me but the person who asked me pointed out it was a 67 GTO with a 66 nose on it. Well, I certainly didn't catch that because I don't know GTO's. Should it then be in Modified class?
On the same token, if someone replaced their 340 with a 318 and painted it right. I don't check numbers unless I was buying.
If a car has the wrong year wheelcovers, would you notice as long as they looked right?

[benny]

quick question here...you say the guy had a "ss" and it should go in muscle car class.....GTO , to alot, is considered first muscle car. How can an SS go into muscle car....it was out years before the GTO ??/ Put that in the "train of thought"...

Getting to the noticed part...like I said before..if the sheets had a place for a written protest and the protest was correct, the car should be placed in the proper category then. If not correct, that person has no more protest options.

Promoters should select people to do jobs at a show WITHOUT interferrence from other club members. Peer pressure should not be tolerated

[65cuda]

Gary please don`t take anything personal, you have to have a sense of humor with this because it happens all over, this Malibu had the engine in chrome Holly carb, and corvette rims, in the stock class, hey more power to him. my car came in 2nd in the A-body show it was beat by a 74 swinger that had a 340 air cleaner on a 318 engine numbers were way off, I don`t have a problem with that, at least it looked stock

[65cuda]

southsidekustomz said:

Exactly--I couldn't give $20.00 after that crap--I'd been giving in. Yeah they seem to forget the 20 year rule for a classic car over there or 30 for an antique....that's why there is a new class for Performance vehicles......I honestly don't care. I could understand if I was an asshole to them but over their mistake....just funny. People take the internet way too seriously.

But don't be down hearted, I can post it for you, sonny
It won't take too long, it'll just take money

lol

[oldschoolcruiser]

Muscle car class........if I go there I'll get upset all over again. Again.

As for modifieds in the stock class.......I see it all the time. If you're talking a '67 GTO with a '66 front clip on it, so what? If it LOOKS stock, then JUDGE it as stock. If the judge notices, then it becomes his call as to whether a reduction in points is warranted.

Personally, IMHO, that GTO would not be a problem for me unless it was a tiebreaker. Tiebreakers are where you have to go back and begin nit-picking the little things. Also IMHO, aftermarket valve covers, wheels, manifolds, headers etc. all belong in MODIFIED. Many shows specify 3 OR MORE mods make it modified. Points should be subtracted for all mods in a stock class, even if there's only 3 of them, in order to be fair to the others. (as tiebreaker) Technically, a non-stock color is a mod, even though it may look great. Personally, I would be inclined to let that one slide.....but if I do it for one I'd have to do it for everyone. Not too many cars have the exact stock color match after a re-paint anyhow.

I really don't care if modifieds get judged along with me in a stock class........if the judges are honest it won't matter. It'd take a total idiot not to notice headers and aftermarket engine parts etc. on an entry. What really CHAPS MY AZZ is when one wins over a stock car and it's totally obvious the dude got hosed.

[65cuda]

but!!!!!!!!!!! if its not a judged show, but a participant judged show, people think well its the class must be stock, seen it, happens all the time, I don`t care its a joke anyway will join `em

[oldschoolcruiser]

What really sucks is the way the national Buick club (BCA) judges their Nationals. Their modified class is ALL YEARS! Only 3 awards to go around over 150 cars! And the judges aren't even sure how to judge it, because you have to ADD points instead of subtract, something they aren't even used to doing.

In the stock class, you are judged on a point system against yourself ........which means ALL entries are eligible for an award. They have different levels, Gold, Silver, and Bronze. Many judges are not in sync, some are pr!cks, others are cool about stuff.

Please excuse my rant here.....but when I had mine there back in '05, I had one of each.......they went over my car with a fine tooth comb. They took points off for all kinds of little crap that I never even thought of.......they even take off for non-original shocks! It was the fact my motor is one year different really hit me hard. One judge really liked my car, and thought it was worthy of the silver but the other (who owns a concourse car like mine) thought bronze. I heard I missed by 1 point which was later changed, making mine Silver.

What made me mad enough to drop out the club was this......after not attending the long and boring "awards dinner" , the president of the local chapter kept my silver award in his motor home for nearly 4 months. Only after I raised hell with a few other people only then it was given to me.......with an "I forgot about it" excuse.

So when you guys moan and complain about local car shows, just remember, it gets worse the further up the ladder you go. No more nationals for me, I prefer to just get hosed at home and save the gas money. ;D

[swi66]

Ray, the Chevelle you are referring to happened when I was not classifying. Nothing for me to get upset about.
The "SS" I was referring to was a 69, and yeah, to me a Muscle car.
The GTO story actually had a little more to it. The person pointing that out to me was a competitor of that car and was trying to point out it should be re-classed. To me it pissed me off as I personally hate it when someone tries and interfere while a judge is judging.

As for totally stock................some of you have seen my Red Corvair Convertible, I don't take it out much. Most of you would be hard pressed to note any modifications on it other than the radial tires (with proper width white walls). In a Corvair national I am in modified class. One reason is I have an aftermarket replacement master cylinder instead of a GM one. Another is I have installed a correct factory AM/FM radio, but did not re-locate my antenna to the front of the car from the back. As there is a difference in antenna locations depending on which radio you have...............I got over it, and score well in the points system in Modified class as the nature of the modifications mean nothing in their concours, only cleanliness and fit and finish.
and they even do an operations check. Cigarette lighter working, how well windows move up and down, travel of emergency brake lever, and even play in vent window handles.

[southsidekustomz]

Just my 2 Cents - BUT STOCK MEANS STOCK - We all know this, STOCK = The way the car was put out of the factory (options and motor as is from factory to dealership showroom floor) as in came "stock" from the factory. Any additions/changes to = "modified" Then---> "muscle car" was formed for engine modifications for the "grocery getters of their time" Nova/Chevelle (atleast to the best of my knowledge).

You guys will love this one, Mark the owner of One Stop printing and Car Graphics who I started doing business with a month ago for printing of my shirts and business card etc...and doing printing of RPM Magazine which is owned by a friend and my wife is a sales rep, decided to change our business relationship because of Rod and Piston and One Stop's realtionship. One Stop was suppose to print samples of shirts that i am going into the dealer market with, then changes his story and says samples will be $300-$500, then wanted to reduce my business card order to make digital renderings of my shirts., come to find out Mark from One Stop and Joe of Rod and Piston are buds and has been calling me a complaining idiot....I have emails to prove it......What in the Hell?

Did people forget the F with bikers rule?--LOL

[oldschoolcruiser]

admin said:

but!!!!!!!!!!! if its not a judged show, but a participant judged show, people think well its the class must be stock, seen it, happens all the time, I don`t care its a joke anyway will join `em

As I've stated before......these kind of shows are popularity contests.....not only regarding the make and model of the car, but many times the owner. "you vote for me, and I'll do something for you".

I see it all the time.......the reason I avoid participant judged shows for the most part. It's non-scientific judging, and bound to causs ill feelings no matter what the outcome.

Participants give their voting slips to their kids, spectators, and whatever so they don't have to be bothered. Sometimes even show entrants don't know what they're voting for b/c their own car is a professional resto.

How many events have we attended that were either judged by, or the classes and whatnot determined by people who aren't even into cars. The show at St. Barnabus is a prime example of that......although they did a great job at their first show the year I was there.

I think the best way to run a part. judged show is to have plenty of trophies with no classes........thereby eliminating modified cars in stock.......just my honest opinion.

southsidekustomz said:

Then---> "muscle car" was formed for engine modifications for the "grocery getters of their time" Nova/Chevelle (atleast to the best of my knowledge).

I think I'm gonna need some valiums very soon!

I forget which car club makes this determination for their show, may have been a Rochester show? But it's something like this...........(not word for word, and not necessarily my opinion)

'Any car that came from the factory with a performance package such as GTO, SS, GS, RT Etc.' A Nova or Chevelle is not, unless it has the SS performance package. Neither is a big car, such as a Impala, unless it is an SS. This is not based on big motors in light cars, as many of these cars had smallblocks in them. It was the upgraded motors, suspension, steering, badging, etc. that put them in this category.

Usually, since the '64 GTO is the "original musclecar" (cough-cough), the belief is that the years span from '64 until '72, the last year before the fun really ended. I guess the Hemi cars of the early '50s and the flathead Fords and Buicks of the same era with their massive torque output dont count, according to some.

Throughout that era, it was the big cars that hauled azz but until one guy at GM invented the GTO (which in '64 was not a model, but a performance package) that the term "musclecar" was coined.

........now I'm going to hide for a while until the fireworks end. ;D

[oldschoolcruiser]

southsidekustomz said:

come to find out Mark from One Stop and Joe of Rod and Piston are buds and has been calling me a complaining idiot....I have emails to prove it......What in the Hell?

Oh.......I meant to address that......that's because you cost them money.

And I'm sorry for hijacking your thread.

[OneTreedCat]

Joe, hijacking? What hijacking? lol If you recall Joe, I was at the BCA 2005 National Show. I was in modified class where I belonged. The modifieds were broken into three groups, as I remember, depending on year of manufacture with three awards for each group. So far, so good. Then the self-appointed Modified Division Chief Judge, who was also the Director of the Modified Division, indicated that he was unhappy with how the rest of the judging team evaluated his car so he arbitrarily changed the points on the sheets. He gave himself a second place instead of third. He and his wife wife were the one's tallying the judging sheets for the division. This Chief Judge groused that he could not give himself a first place because the car that was judged first place was just too many points ahead. This guy was later overheard bragging about what he had done. I happened to be the unfortunate schmuck who was bumped that day at a national show from second place to third. I was also told that, since I was not going to attend the banquet, that I would not be able to receive my award. Fortunately and to the great credit of the sponsoring Chapter, my award arrived in the mail about a week later.

Classification can be tough - one could end up with dozens of classes with very few cars in each if not careful. I was at a show last season where I was put into a muscle car class. When I said that I belonged in a modified class I was told that they had no modified classes - that I had made my car into a muscle car anyway. Well, OK - it was a nice warm day and I was enjoying the time. One person grumbled a bit about me being in his class but by the end of the show I think that he got over it, even though I took "Best Muscle Car."

The point being is that I suppose it sort of evens out in the end - good days and bad. I have set an objective for myself. That being not to get too upset when things go bad but to really relish the time when things go my way. If I didn't do this, I probably would go nuts and quit the whole affair.

As a side note: spring is just a little over three weeks away.

[95gts]

southsidekustomz said:

So I tried to post a rebuttle, to all their posts over there, but guess what --- my username was banned (undefied) bunch of f**kin cup cakes......and people over there are too stupid to read how it looked funny that they left my other flyers but pulled the one for the troops.....ass clowns. I think I'll be taking a ride to their car show! LOL

Taking that you were shut off on the site, never to return there are a couple things that I might suggest.....They do read over here, so you opinion will be heard, by them, by many more then people know. You were alright to post there, until you signed up here and posted...then you got banned, this is a way to show you that they read over here....
Second, you talk of the new magazine that your better half is involved with, is there a way to write a article of what happened, your side, That would be hilarious! As well as a way for you to take a jab back at them publicly.

[95gts]

Hijacking:
(Verb) taking over a thread
(noun) taking a topic off topic

[benny]

AND if You do submit an article..here is somthing else very interesting...the R & P grattwick park show is the ONLY show I know of that lines the pockets of the promoters. They claim a "portion" of the proceeds go to charity. Well, a portion to Me means a "part" If they correct it to say a portion of the proceeds which is pure profit goes entirely to charity, well that's different.What I'm saying here, is by advertising a portion goes to charity, where does the rest of the profit go ?? VIVA LAS VEGAS !! EVEN a Moonan show,which gets bashed,all the proceeds go to the PBA. All the other shows, the proceeds go to the Firehall/Church/other charity or whatever. AND they want 20 bucks for a flyer. FastEddy exposed it and they Banned Him also. KUDO"S to FastEddy and Southside.

[65cuda]

HOBBY
An activity or interest pursued outside one's regular occupation and engaged in primarily for pleasure

BUSINESS
An activity typically formed to earn profit and grow the personal wealth of their owners.